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TAMMY: Oh, that’s really nice. TAMMY: It’s time to hear from an artist who’s been making music for many decades and has made Worcestershire her home. She’s back with a new album called “In The Court Of The Crimson Queen”. We welcome back Toyah! I think people choose to go back to the fashion if they want to but there’s just something about the longevity of the music and the music stands out like no other decade - TOYAH: - Who I’ve been writing with in a songwriting partnership for 42 years, wasn’t convinced that the four bars he’d written for the intro of the album was actually going to be the biggest song of my life - ALEX: I can. It’s Alex here from the BBC. TOYAH: Oh yes, “In The Court Of The Crimson Queen” - JASON: Fantastic. Thank you also to Chris, Andy and John, lovely to see you guys. Keep in touch, Toyah! And hopefully I’ll catch you on tour sometime - JASON: Absolutely thrilled to have you in the studio today, thank you so much for coming in to see us. The album is out as well? PHIL: Yeah. I taps in, doesn’t it? TOYAH: Yeah, Leslie, myself and all the cast we’ve been together a lot. Last year it started kicking in, we made a documentary for Sky Arts and that’s everyone from Ray Winstone, Sting, right through to Timothy Spall and all of us on the poster so there’s a lot happening this year to do with “Quadrophenia”. I can’t tell you just yet because (there’s) a lot of surprises but The Who are involved. TOYAH: Yeah. I tell you the biggest surprise – and it’s been twelve months of surprises – on my 60th birthday my audience downloaded me to number one in the charts and that’s what’s kicked off all of this. That led to Demon Music signing us on a contract, which is the first time I’ve been signed to a label in about 40 years. PHIL: Oh my God, yeah. Because you’ve had a lot of problems with Safari Records – that was the label you were signed to right back in the 70’s - PHIL: Oh yes, because he co-wrote it - TOYAH ON BBC RADIO SOLENT WITH ALEX DYKE 23.5.2019. PHIL: I think it was quite sanitized - TOYAH: I’m opening with – very good question - “Good Morning Universe”. Then “Echo Beach”, “Thunder In The Mountains”, “It’s A Mystery”, “I Want To Be Free” - PHIL: Because you’ve always written songs in the past maybe inspired your dreams. Is that still the case now or do you get your songs inspired by what’s going on in the real life? TOYAH: Thank you so much, thank you PHIL: See you soon. TOYAH: Oh, “Sensational”! I’m very passionate that we tell our children that they are beautiful and unique - TOYAH: Five new tracks - So that was cool. This is what my band did – they looked after me. Then I tried to walk to the B&B and a police car picked me up and they said “you can’t be alone” - because of the Yorkshire Ripper so you know, all of that. So we lived through that. My generation lived through that because no one knew who and what and where the next strike was going to happen. PHIL: It was great - TOYAH ON BBC RADIO DEVON WITH RICHARD GREEN 8.6.2019. I couldn’t have written it until I became an adult the day I lost my parents. There’s something about that dis-connect, where you have to learn to trust the world again that you become a bigger and better person. TOYAH: “Sensational” is talking to the audience saying you are sensational! Don’t let anyone tell you any other way! You are – the fact that we’re all here – we should be grateful for it and respect it TAMMY: Do you know, the essence of Toyah – we should bottle it and all take a sip every day. I love that! TOYAH: I think – and I really have to pull this out of my my memory banks … I did a lot of historical dramas for the BBC during this time. I did “Jekyll & Hyde” with David Hemmings (above with Toyah in “Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde” (1980)) and I did an another one - which I can’t for the life of me remember what the name was and Diana Dors was, I think, in “Jekyll & Hyde” with me playing a Madam. And she was great! TOYAH: Yeah, even when I do the big 80’s festivals I try to give that in the moment. So if I’m doing “I Want To Be Free”, “Thunder In The Mountains”, “It’s A Mystery”, “Good Morning Universe”, all those hits – I try to give them in a relevant way today. It may sound glib and easy to say that because we all have to fight our dark clouds but I just think that life is so precious. Especially when you get to my age. You just don’t want to waste it! TOYAH: I’m more intelligent than I was in 1975 – PHIL: That’s what makes her more appealing as an artist I think. There’s no ego. Or I suppose you’ve got to have a certain amount of ego to - The opening song “Dance In A Hurricane” I could’ve only have written from the age I am today. It was finished in January, it took a year to write because my co-writer Simon Darlow, who wrote Grace Jones’ “Slave To The Rhythm” by the way – TAMMY: Oh my word … ALEX: You know you’re an inspiration, especially to young women. I mean if you look at what you’ve done and how you’ve done it – against all the odds really … If you look at your background and your beginning and your own perception of yourself. It’s an extraordinary achievement. You know that, right? It really was the only movement that I know that if you were a strong person it didn’t matter what person you were, you were welcome and you had a place on the stage. So I think punk gave me my confidence. TOYAH: Everything’s a blur now! TOYAH: I saw “Rocketman” last week, the music is so profound ! JASON: That’s amazing, isn’t it? TOYAH: And they will discover the music you love. Personally I don’t think there’s such a thing as bad music. I think generations just need their voice and you can’t take that voice away from them and that’s the divide between you and your children - TAMMY: Oh my word … TOYAH: Oh! If we had #MeToo in the late 70’s which is when I kicked in …oh boy! It was unbelievable being a woman in very much a man’s world. Especially doing Northern Working Men’s Clubs, especially going even North of the border. I don’t want to put these places down because they were great to play and the audiences were fantastic … but you were just groped. The whole time – left, right and centre. Just groped. TOYAH: But to answer your question – I take dreams quite seriously because I’ve learned that sometimes they’re telling you something that you need to be aware of. PHIL: Because a lot of modern films aren’t as disturbing as they used to be I don’t think TOYAH: Oh well, you must see “The House That Jack Built” … Piers Von … TOYAH: Remake was very sanitized PHIL: Yeah. Are you still scared by stuff now when you watch - TOYAH: I do deliver because the audience comes first. I don’t think I’ve gone beyond that point where I have nothing to prove. As an actress I’ve got everything to prove and I’m still learning. The new album I think is a beautiful album and it’s so exclusively me that I think I want people to hear it and go “yes, Toyah’s being Toyah” and that suits me down to the ground. ALEX DYKE: Let’s call Toyah, shall we? Hope she’s in for us, she is expecting our call - TOYAH : Yeah … I … (struggles to find words) It’s taken a while to sink in. Because I play all through the year, I do four shows a week and I have done for the last twenty years and my shows sell out. I’m used to having an audience but to suddenly know there’s going to be this presence … I’m still coming to terms with it because it’s going to very different how it was 42 years ago - ALEX: Toyah, thank you so much for your time. You’re such a legend and a star. Have a wonderful evening. Thank you for your time. TOYAH: Can you hear me OK? TOYAH: Boy, you’ve opened a can of worms there! (laughs) TAMMY: Oh, have I? (laughs) TOYAH: I’m studying music at the moment and I have a wonderful teacher called Chris Long, who the community will know because he’s always doing concerts, a keyboard player. He’s teaching me music theory and keyboards. He insists that I practice with somebody jamming along with me and I asked Robert to jam along with me and Robert was so unhelpful and so ungiving. I have a real ambition to be in an opera one day and I never say never and I don’t think doors close. I think one day it might happen. But if I did go into an opera it would have to be really modern and really extreme. Because I am a rock singer. I was very aware from a very young age that I was being made to identify as something for the convenience of others. It’s all to do with ticking boxes and filling forms and listing in bureaucracy – on your passport, male or female. I think we’re all individuals. And it’s fabulous because I want to remind people of our rebellion because I’m the punk generation. We’re the generation that forgot to grow old and still have that element of bravado in us so when I do “I Want To Be Free” I seem to ignite a passion in people and it becomes quite militant - RICHARD: Does it? TOYAH: And yeah, people recognise us but they don’t make it impossible for us to have a normal life. TOYAH: Thank you. I write with my co-partner Simon Darlow. I’ve been writing with him since I was 18 and he was 17. He’s worked on many of my big albums as well. We have a very psychic relationship. Put us in a room and things just happen. He picks up a guitar, he hits the piano and we come up with something like “Sensational” in two minutes. TOYAH: I know I went on the 11th of September. She invited me to come and see it PHIL: What an incredible show TOYAH: Yeah. One of the best things I’ve ever seen. TOYAH: (on the phone) It’s good to be back! How are you today? PHIL: You are what I think is safe to call a juggernaut in so many ways because I’ve always thought from the late 70’s to now you have this endless energy, a kind of effervescence that you can’t control it - TOYAH: I can’t control it - But for Derek it was so frightening. When he had HIV and then it developed into AIDS … he was getting death threats, he was getting people wanting to violently take his life as if AIDS wasn’t violent enough. So it was a remarkable experience to be with these young people and to be able to share my story with them and them being able to share their present day story with me PHIL: You mentioned Kate Bush - PHIL: Doesn’t feel like - RICHARD: Experience! Yeah! (laughs) TOYAH: - Writing to play. That’s about 28 albums. So the acoustic evening kind of starts in the punk movement and works right through to the present day. We play songs that work really well with three voices and two guitars. The show is a huge success, it sells out around the world. ALEX: More diplomatic you mean? (laughs) TOYAH : Well, it was crammed to the rafters, it was 40 degrees in the venue. I mean it was like performing in a sauna. It was fabulous ( laughs) TOYAH: I’m really good, I’m having a really good time ( laughs) Everything with the album has had such a positive reaction and I’m 61 this year and I didn’t expect this to be happening in my life and it’s really good. TOYAH: Yes, she was a very generous person. Not only did I get down time with her, my father turned up on the film set unannounced and was hiding on the film set to watch his film idol Katherine Hepburn and she found him! And she said “who are you and what are you doing here?” and he said “I’m Toyah’s father” and she stopped filming and took him to lunch - TOYAH: Whoo (laughs) That is such a big question! Well, I was filming with Katherine Hepburn in a film called “The Corn Is Green”, which was directed by the legendary director George Cukor. I then went straight on to do “Quadrophenia” (below, and the cast now) which is 40 this year. The movie. TOYAH: She was just the most extraordinary woman. And she would talk to me a lot about who ever I asked about but her main influence and her big love of her life was Spencer Tracy and she would wear his clothes every day and he had been long gone by 1979. But she would often just say “this is Spencer’s jumper, this is Spencer’s trousers” (laughs) and she was still very connected to him. TOYAH: Yeah and one thing that makes me really laugh is they’re doing the harmonies and it’s lovely because (Richard laughs) it really helps out! You think “oh, thank you, thank you, you’re doing the harmonies, it sounds even better!” RICHARD: I know you’re doing a Let’s Rock but towards the year you’re doing a more sort of focused on this album tour, is that fair? In the autumn time? TOYAH: Yeah. The autumn dates – we’re playing all through the year and we’re going to be doing a lot of the “In The Court Of The Crimson Queen” songs but the end of the year, October, into November we’re doing the Crimson Queen gigs which will be Birmingham - The Mill, The Brook in Southampton, Bristol, which kind of people can travel to from your area - TOYAH: What I loved about it was you really felt nothing but love in the room. TOYAH: I hate sleep! I would do anything to pop a pill and never sleep again. ALEX: You were ahead of your time, weren’t you? I mean I look at what you did as a child and you were an artist, let’s face it when you walked through the streets of Birmingham. People had never seen anything like it. Was that some sort of divine intervention or was it you being you or was it influence because let’s face it it’s very easy to fit in the crowd – it’s very difficult to deliberately stand out? TOYAH: In some cultures dreams are believed to be the real work we do. I often wonder why on earth do we sleep so much of our lives … Well, go and ask some native Aboriginal in Australia – they’ll tell you that’s when you do your real work. ALEX: Well, he never listened to it though. He paid the fine! ALEX: Are you less feisty now than you were in 1975 for example? TOYAH: It was very clever. Well, Chris Goode was asked by the Manchester Royal Exchange “what would you like to do as a writer/director?” And he said “I want to bring the film “Jubilee” to the stage.” The first script I read - and I don’t think we veered far away from what I read first - was one of the most outrageous funniest things I have ever had in my hand. It was just so gloriously naughty. I’m still learning and checking myself all the time. I’ve been writing music for 42 years and it’s a journey without an end so I would not judge someone else’s writing because it’s the process of being creative that’s important. TOYAH: I love it! There was quarter of a million people on site and it’s just radically different to anything I’ve ever experienced. So I’m a little bit sensitive to the audience. I’d say I’m more scared in the arenas than I am at the acoustic. PHIL: How are you? ALEX: This is the Greatest Hits you’re doing on Sunday and some other stuff – back catalogue. It’s your full electric band and you’re just celebrating 40 years of being in the business? TOYAH: Why? I think it’s because it’s about the audience, it’s a shared experience with the audience. The audience can identify with what we’re doing. TOYAH: But again it didn’t want to offend - And then slowly the kind of dedicated Toyah following has been building up over the last ten years. So my latest album “In The Court Of The Crimson Queen” went straight into the Top 10 two months ago. The first track we’re going to play for you today is my next single off it, which is about July the 17th that’s coming out. But it has just been an absolutely stunning year - PHIL: You mentioned Simon Darlow, who your loyal fans will of course know from back in the 80’s. You worked together with him on “Love Is The Law” 1983 and then again on “Minx” in ‘85 - TAMMY: Isn’t that lovely - So it’s a very exciting time. And the whole of my year has live shows booked so we’re going to be performing these songs. I’m even being booked into next year so it’s going to have a long life. JASON: Amazing. Amazing. Fabulous ! Are you going to do another record for us in a momen? The beauty of Youtube and performing to such young people – to me anyone under 30 is really young – is that they’re yet to discover this music and I think they’re really going to like it. So I’m very active with all of that. TAMMY: (laughs) And on that note – you can see Toyah at loads of festivals across the summer. The Mill in Birmingham on the 18th of October. Have a look at the website because all the stuff is there and you get your hands on this brilliant album “In The Court Of The Crimson Queen”. Toyah, it’s been a joy! Thank you! TOYAH: Thank you so much, Tammy and it’s good to talk to you and I can’t wait to come home! We’ve done it now for five years. We go into lovely little places. This is a village hall near Nottingham, completely sold out. We could’ve done a week here but it will be magical. We know that because it’s up close and it’s very personal. RICHARD GREEN: It’s the BBC at The Let’s Rock festival, Toyah! ALEX: People forget that show business – and you have to run a busines s to make it a show. I mean that’s what you’ve done all of your career, haven’t you? You’ve had to be the person fighting forward because if not you’re quickly forgotten. RICHARD: You’ve been singing songs of empowerment for ages haven’t you, really? That have that sort of oompf to them? TOYAH: My songs are anthems. My songs are written for the stadiums where you want a lot of people singing with you - ALEX: I asked Ken Dodd if he’d ever retire when he was 89 and he said “well, what’s the point? You only retire to stop doing what you don’t want to do - to do what you do want to do and I’m doing what I want to do - if you know what I’m trying to say?” Are you doing what you want to do? TOYAH: Well, I trained in opera from about the age of 14 right through to 18. German opera. I keep catching myself talking German although my German isn’t great. But that really helped me. And if anything it’s hard to get it out of the voice because when I have to do the big notes at the end of songs that’s when I kick the opera in. TOYAH: Well, yes, it is called “Up Close And Personal”. I do a lot of those - RICHARD: So how do the new songs fit into that - bearing in mind this is a whole album, an electric band on the album? RICHARD: And how does it go when that happens? Because I’ve seen you at the festivals of course when you do some of the big songs from the past and they’ll be singing them back at you - And our life is very normal. I shop in the local shops, I’m passionate about keeping the High Street alive. It’s a very special market town that we live in - PHIL: Gorgeous packaging. I mean it’s gatefold – 2 CD. MARK: And you’ve got two dates coming up in our area quite soon. St John Church in Farncombe – have you played there before? I was a hair model in a big department store in Birmingham, did the big hair shows around the country, had coloured hair right before punk and I knew I was going to have to be different to be noticed. But I didn’t have confidence and then I discovered punk and punk was very accepting of women. TOYAH: You can’t win either way. No. TOYAH: And that’s what “Dance In A Hurricane” is about TAMMY: It’s so funny, everything you’ve just said – because I’ve got a couple of notes written down here and I’d written on this little scrap of paper that the 15 tracks on the album – looking at life and love and empowerment and wonderment and I’d put here “I guess it’s fair to say you couldn’t have made this album forty years ago”? TOYAH: No way. Absolutely no way. I needed to be able to step away from my teenage self that had crushes on everyone, step away from my 30 year old self who was just frustrated with life. I needed to be in a place I’m now and I wanted to reach back through time to younger generations and say “everything will be alright” TAMMY: I love that. I think we need to hear this song which has also been described as an ode to defiantly walking your own path through life. And it appears to me, as a youngster watching Toyah on Top Of The Pops, my sister kind of trying to be you singing in the hairbrush (Toyah laughs) and kind of having the hair and all of that going on. It seems to me you’ve always done that and that’s what’s so kind of inspirational I think about you, as an artist TOYAH: I find myself, in retrospect, able to say that I’m very lucky no one took an interested in me in the business and what I mean by that none of the megastar management wouldn’t be interested in someone like me. ALEX: That’s extraordinary. Some women may not have made that choice which they could’ve regretted forever. You had that within you. I wonder where that comes from? ALEX: You can’t win either way at this point, can yo? TOYAH: No, some people have incredible power. Laurence Olivier (above with Toyah) had that and Katherine Hepburn had that. Sting in a way has it but when we made “Quadrophenia” with him we were all in his hotel room learning the harmonies to “Roxanne”. He was incredibly encompassing , he was very kind good man. JASON MOHAMMAD: Good Morning! Then the other songs have all been used in movies and the entire album has been used in a London stage musical called “Crime And Punishment”, four years ago. Then we’ve written five brand new songs. The last to be finished in January was “Dance In The Hurricane” which is the opening track. So this album has walked back into success - TAMMY: Whoa! Love that! If only that was possible! TOYAH: Well, yeah, my God - nothing would get done. RICHARD: Yeah and of course it feels from the audience’s point of view like they own something. If you stream stuff nowadays you don’t sort of connect with it the same way. Well, I don’t anyway … TOYAH: Well, it’s a very satisfying thing to have back - TOYAH: I’m really good, thank you. MARK CARTER: Congratulations on the new album! I have been listening and I love it! It’s a great sound. You must be very proud? PHIL: At the Hammersmith – as it was then – The Odeon. Now The Apollo. Kate Bush played there a few years ago - ALEX: You’re a remarkable talent, you’ve got a stunning voice and audiences never cease to be amazed by you. I love the new album. “In The Court Of The Crimson Queen” is just wonderful and as I say “Sensational” is truly one of the greatest songs I’ve heard in a very very long time. Your voice is so precious. Be less hard on yourself. JASON: Lovely to see you, fantastic to see you – it’s going so well - I can’t believe this as well - you were in my home city of Cardiff, you played at the Acapela (below)- TOYAH: I worked with John Mills, I worked with Laurence Olivier. Even Diana Dors and they were all true stars. Today as stars tend to be very real or reality based these were people who were built by the Hollywood system and they were phenomenal. They were very very different and I’m so glad I met them. TOYAH ON BBC RADIO HEREFORD & WORCESTER WITH TAMMY GOODING 9.4.2019. ALEX: OK, so here we go then. It’s Sunday the 26th of May which is just around the corner. This coming Sunday, the Theatre Royal Winchester. 40 years in the business. You don’t look old enough! MARK: Good for you. I tell you what, Leslie Ash was in Brighton this week because they’re launching this big Quad40 thing, celebrating 40 years of “Quadrophenia”. Can you believe – 40 years?! ALEX: And then of course when we look back on all the work you’ve done and the beautiful stuff you’ve done on stage. Is there anything like that pin focus still? Can recording a CD compare with standing on stage performing it live? TOYAH: Yellow Brick Road … JASON: I mean they watched “Bohemian Rhapsody”, they love Queen and now it’s all about Elton as well. There was a lad, he must’ve been ten years old on his dad’s shoulders and Elton is banging out “Saturday Night’s Alright For Fighting” and this kid is singing the words back to Elton. He was about ten or eleven years old! That is just so powerful, isn’t it, Toyah? TOYAH: He said to me the other day – and I have no memory of this – I was the first person to sing “Slave To The Rhythm”. I was with him when he wrote it - TOYAH: Yeah, my aspirations weren’t normal (they both laugh) I knew as soon as I could walk what I wanted to do. I was a show-off. ALEX: It is a tough world to survive. I wonder – turning 60 … what did that mean to you? I mean was it personally thrilling that you made it to sixty (Toyah laughs) and you look the way you do? Was it professionally – did it matter to you? Was it a big sort of date last year? TOYAH: He was great. He’s a remarkable man, very very intelligent as you’d expect. I’m always blown away about how humble Kate is because she’s a goddess! PHIL MARRIOTT: Toyah Willcox! Fantastic to see you! TOYAH: And it’s going up and up and up because we’ve been doing lots of radio and even last week a promoter contacted me during a live radio show and offered me a festival. The numbers – it’s just tick, tick, tick, tick – going up. The energy – when I’m on stage I don’t know where it comes from. I don’t think I’ve ever gone on stage without that surge of something coming into me that I can’t hold back. TOYAH: There was a petition to save it and give it a heritage plaque. But no, it’s gone, I think it’s flats now. TOYAH: For me the most rewarding part of my life is on stage where there is no mobile phones, there’s no e-mail, there’s no distraction and it’s a very very extraordinary experience which I’m grateful for. JASON: Yeah. I took them to see Elton last week - PHIL: It’s really your roots, isn’t it? TOYAH: I’m very proud of surviving (Alex laughs) I am definitely a survivor and I’ve survived with very very little support. I’ve done virtually all of this myself with my musicians. I manage myself because I can’t find a manager, I cant find a PA. No one wants the lifestyle I have! TOYAH: Well, I am blind to negativity. I just don’t bother with it. Life is so precious , time is so precious. Music is multi-generational and this is what I do. Accept it. We need to learn acceptance in a lot of how we go about our daily lives. So yes – I do do social media but the delete button is very active - RICHARD: Perhaps you can sort of clarify for us, it’s “In The Court Of The Crimson Queen” - but it’s partly new and partly re-working of old. Can you just explain for us? TOYAH: OK. It’s not that old, the songs began their lives around 2007 and only the fans that come to see my shows knew these songs. And then on my 60th birthday last year, which was May the 18th, they downloaded everything to number one in the charts - TOYAH: It’s absolutely remarkable – that dedication to his audience. They knew they were in for the night. I think they used to bring pillows and picnic hampers. So we’re doing a lot of celebratory filming this year of that. I was also touring my band endlessly and in 78’,79’ and 80’ you had the first Indie Chart, which was available in The New Musical Express, the biggest music paper at the time. I was number one in those charts every week, every day for two years. You seem to judge yourself more harshly than we do. We think your delicious (Toyah laughs) and we think you’re incredibly talented and we think you’ve done quite enough. Nothing to achieve, it’s already great. Stop pushing! MARK: Can’t wait to see you in our neck of the woods, Toyah, great to catch up! I just found the changes you go through … I found hard. 40 was great fun! 50 was OK but 60 is magnificent! I’m 61 in May. I have loved very minute so far and it’s true – you don’t give a damn, therefore you start enjoying it. JASON: Fabulous! Let’s hear it. Thank you Toyah. RICHARD: Yes. So it’s all the big hits, all the big players. What are you opening with today? TOYAH: I was very cult. I was hugely successful as an actress and as a touring artists but I hadn’t had nationwide hits. So that documentary – wow! Mind-blowing. You ask if I like it? I love it! (Phil laughs) PHIL: It was fascinating to watch as well and also I presume that new fans of yours that didn’t know you back then or didn’t have an insight as to how you started - PHIL: Yeah, I saw that - PHIL: Oh, have they? TOYAH: Yeah, Mayhem’s gone - TOYAH: It’s about being apart from the one you love and dreaming them into the room. TOYAH: I haven’t seen that yet. TOYAH: (laughs) I’m Toyah – yeah. I think it’s very nice that people are saying that I have legendary status. I think it’s because of my age (laughs) TOYAH: Ooh! I don’t know about that. You have to push to a certain extent to do certain things. Especially to get in the big movies. You’d be amazed how hard you have to push to do that. I don’t think I’ll never give up hope on all of these ambitions. ALEX: Wow … Talking about … I could talk to you all day – we should get you in the studio face to face, play album tracks and Greatest Hits and play the current album. You’ve got to come down and see us Toyah, so we can do this properly but Sunday, 26th of May, Theatre Royal Winchester, the 40th anniversary of the wonderful Toyah and you’ll get just a great show with loads of costume changes and Toyah looking gorgeous and being fantastic! We feel going back is where we should be. So there’s none of this feeling “oh, let’s do LA, let’s do New York, lets do Paris”. We belong where we live and that’s a lovely feeling. Recorded at the Ravenshead Village Hall, Ravenshead, Nottingham. TOYAH ON CELEBRITY RADIO 29.3.2019. RICHARD: Well, I don’t know so much about that but listen – you’ve got a brand new album - PHIL: Because we know you’ve touched on the anniversaries of your previous albums - “The Changeling”, you did the anniversaries for those, you’ve got the 35th anniversary of “Minx” (below) coming up - PHIL: I’ve just seen “Us” - which was quite disturbing. PHIL: You’re bouncing all the over the place. How do you do it? TOYAH: And this is what this song is about - PHIL: The reason I asked you that question was because I was at Battersea Dog’s Home just the other day and that is very close to where you used to live - TOYAH: I was across the road. They’ve knocked it down now - They’re all about the grief before the grief actually was there in the world and it’s a common theme in “In The Court Of The Crimson Queen”. It’s how grief makes us better people. It makes us stronger, it makes our love stronger, makes our hearts stronger because you have to reach out further to find those you love. So for me that’s a very powerful message. MARK: It does make sense, My colleague here who is - I think 49 next month – she said to me “I really wanted to be Toyah because she was the cool one”. Were you aware back in the day that you were this person that they were trying to copy, emulate your style? ALEX: Aww … Toyah, we’ve got to do this properly soon! Thank you so much and have a great night at the Theatre Royal Winchester Sunday night! ALEX BELFIELD: Toyah Willcox, how are you? TOYAH: Well, it’s a song of empowerment. It a song that tells people with no confidence that they are miraculous, they are sensational. You can watch the interview here. PHIL: And proving again that you always want to look forward as well. That gave me a lot of confidence, I was probably the least talented there but I was the most driven. I can’t express how important it is to have drive. I think it was this whole thing – I think I was used to being mocked by my family and not being taken seriously. It just made me so determined to succeed. TOYAH: Well, my husband says that it’s actually being wrapped up in a spiritual experience, that water is our connected spirituality as mankind and I think that’s a nice way to look at it. We do flood a lot there and when we flood its very cold water so I’m kind of keeping the positive and the negative on equal balance - TOYAH: Back then I was three stone heavier. You know, today there is nothing wrong with that – back then in the movie industry and the music industry … as soon as signed on a label I had to loose that weigh. I was complicit. It was absolutely fine, I didn’t mind at all. I kind of lost it when filming “Quadrophenia” because we were on so many amphetamines to get through that film! (they both laugh) All of us were popping pills like … aarrghh! It was a fabulous experience! ALEX: Have you put your finger on what that is – what do these people do that I don’t do? TOYAH: I’ve ran away from David Bowie twice because I just couldn’t handle his presence. The first time was when he was appearing at the Milton Keynes Bowl. I think that was about 1983 and Phil Daniels and I – Phil Daniels of “Quadrophenia” - were backstage and we sneaked on stage and we were sitting on the runway going up to the stage and Bowie walked off stage and came and sat right next to us and Phil was going (mouths silently) and I was going “oh my God, oh my God!” (Alex laughs) and we ran! We ran! PHIL: Yeah. What I love about it though, particularly, it seems really current still even though it was recorded the first time around over ten years ago but there’s some tracks on there which seem almost like a reaction to what’s going on politically in the UK and the US. I just want to read through some of these titles. There’s “Hyperventilate”, there’s “Heal Ourselves”, “Bad Man” - All the big hits that were in the charts, “It’s A Mystery”, “Thunder In The Mountains” and so on. Where did young Toyah get that confidence and that courage to stand up and be counted? TOYAH: We absolutely love it and there seems to be an invisible rule. We live on the High Street between two shops, I mean we couldn’t be more visible but I think the community has made an invisible rule to let us have a normal life. TOYAH: I still do - TOYAH: Yeah! PHIL: Your photographer as well. He also works with Boy George and Boy George I seem to remember was in your documentary - TOYAH: Yes, at Mayhem - From about '75 into '76 right through to about '85 … everything fell in my lap. It was to do with this being unique and being quite strange and not fitting in to the mould. I ended up working with Laurence Olivier, Katherine Hepburn, John Mills, Diana Dors and I had three platinum albums. It was just remarkable , utterly remarkable. ALEX: You’ve got that great thing though like Cliff, Cilla and all these people - that you have a legendary status - TOYAH: No, it was just no problem walking out on that one! It was just - TOYAH: Incredibly humble. I don’t know if you know she used to bring Bertie (Kate’s son) to my house before anyone knew Bertie existed. My father used to take them both out on his boat on the river Avon PHIL: Oh wow … I loved him in the show as well. TOYAH: It’s my roots and I think “Sheep Farming In Barnet” is such an important album. “Blue Meaning” - really important album. They’re so original , they’re so quirky and they still sound fresh. They really deserve their place with the younger generations. ALEX: You’ve nothing to prove, you’re working harder than you’ve ever worked. It must be thrilling and liberating in a way to know what we know what we’re going to get. It’s a guaranteed cheque when we come and see you - that you’re going to deliver? So I just keep on filling that diary and see what happens! (Alex laughs) Tonight we’re doing an acoustic show and I like to think that the acoustic is helping me to become a better musician and a singer because when you only have two guitars and three voices you’ve really got to be spot on. And it’s taught me so much doing this show. PHIL: Ooh sleep, I love sleep, I could go to sleep right now. TOYAH: I am very conscious how important it is to give young women and even just young people – a positive message. My generation did have it easy in comparison to today. We could buy houses, we could buy cars. I feel very very responsible and conscious of the fact that we have to give people hope. JASON: And what about those musicians who criticise those younger singer songwriters, no names being mentioned, on the road right now. Is that fair or are some of them accurate? RICHARD: And what’s happening with “In The Court OF The Crimson Queen” because you’ve got the autumn tour coming? So I’ve been doing this – the 80’s revival started in 2002 when I was asked if I’d like to play Wembley and I said yeah! (Mark laughs) I’ve been waiting for 40 years, of course I want to play Wembley! (laughs) I haven’t looked back since. It’s just been a phenomena . For my generation of artists - the doors just opened and it hasn’t stopped. JASON: Isn’t it good? TAMMY: I can … yeah, yeah - ALEX: I listened to this entire CD all the way through and there were two songs that stood out. And what’s remarkable about this double album is that it’s so eclectic and one minute we’ve got these beautiful ballads and the next minute we’ve got you at your height where you’re doing these sort of outrageous songs and playing on the sort of big ballad stuff and the rock stuff. TOYAH: I highly recommended it! No one tells young people they’ve got something to look forward to (laughs) It’s fabulous! 30 was hard – my thirties were terribly difficult because you’re biologically dealing with everyone asking when are you going to have babies, which I found very very infuriating. PHIL: An other-worldly force - TOYAH: And no one take s no for an answer - ALEX: Shall we bother talking about Brexit? TOYAH: (laughs) I will! On my 60th birthday last year the fans downloaded me to number one in the charts and I was unsigned and it lead to many people saying “we can’t give you radio play, you have to be a signed artist”. So Demon Records picked the album up, we’ve added five new songs to the album. It’s been one hell of a journey getting this into the shops and on the pre-order chart it went straight to number one and of course I’ve been touring this music for 12 years. JASON: Yeah, I can imagine. What about this latest record then that you’re going to play for us. Is it about something specific? TAMMY: It’s lovely, yeah - TAMMY: Isn’t that great … Let’s talk about another track on the album. How about “Sensational”. What’s that about? TOYAH: Oh, that is such a good question! I would’ve acted on my moments of inspiration rather than thinking that they would always be available and what I mean by that you do have bursts of insight that are definitely meant to be acted on. TOYAH ON BBC RADIO SUSSEX WITH MARK CARTER 14.4.2019. PHIL: Amazing! Do you find that a lot of that is a blur - your career in the 80’s - Today I think it’s rather a fantastic time for women because I think women can be sexually very open. They can have multiple partners if they want multiple partners. It was quite hard to do that 30-40 years ago. They can be gay, they can be straight, they can choose their gender. I think that is all really healthy. What I would like to see is that that can happen without anyone batting an eyelid. Funny enough – you ask me … that you know, everyone knows who I am and I’m legendary … I only feel now, and about to turn 61, that I’m arriving. And I think that’s thanks to my writing partnership with Simon Darlow because I think “In The Court Of The Crimson Queen” - if it was my swan song I am very happy with it. MARK: An incredibly loyal following that you’ve had over the years as well? PHIL: There is air punching going on there … TOYAH: The acoustic I love and I know it’s going to be good. It’s just a magical show. We even had a stage invasion in Otley last week (Alex laughs) There’s just something about this show. I think people are so close they go a bit bonkers. Arenas – we do the festivals so we do experience the large audiences, you know, between 30 and 60 000 and I’m more frightened for those than I will be tonight. MARK: Love it! Now, how much of your career, I’m intrigued by this - how much of your career in the early days did you manage to shape or was it shaped for you? TOYAH: Oh yeah! Tell me about it! TOYAH: I certainly did TAMMY: Not far from where I grew up in the 60’s, the 70’s. Interesting time politically and socially. What were your aspirations and what was the young Toyah like? What did you want to do? JASON: Wow ! Such a powerful message in that record - TOYAH: We’ve got to tell our children that they have the world, that they inherit the world - The whole album is just me and my co-writer Simon Darlow, who by the way wrote “Salve To The Rhythm” for Grace Jones. Simon and I started writing when I was 19 and he was 17, that’s when we first met and that’s how long our relationship has been as writers. So “Dance In The Hurricane” started as just the intro with a narrator telling the story of the Crimson Queen and then it went into four bars of drums. And for a year I’ve been persuading Simon that those four bars of drums is a major song and eventually I pinned him down and we got the song! I finished the lyrics in January, we recorded it, it took a while because I couldn’t stop crying while recording it because both of my parent’s passed away while making this album - TOYAH: We’ve got John Humphrey on percussions and we’ve got Chris Wong on guitar, Andy Doble on keyboards - PHIL: It’s quite different, it’s a lot longer. TOYAH ON BBC RADIO DEVON WITH RICHARD GREEN 20.4.2019. TOYAH: There’s some extreme, very one off, on their own things happened … My band really looked after me. I remember getting to Leeds, sometime in 1979, to a club and it was height of the fear of the Yorkshire Ripper. And firstly I arrived at this club and my wonderful lighting man said to me “do not stay here alone. The club owner thinks he has a right to sleep with you. Do not go anywhere – not even the ladies (room) - without one of us escorting you.“ TAMMY: That’s amazing. And in terms of your career it isn’t all about the singing because there’s acting too. You were at Birmingham Rep School for a little while because my brother was there and his claim to fame was “I was at Rep School with Toyah”. But you’re not acting now are you, you’re doing this, that and the other, you know - TOYAH: I loved that school! It was very rinky dink and I absolutely loved it, it was my happiest time. We were in a real theatre and for me to be in something that’s real – (rather than) if you’re on a film set or a TV studio – you absorb it and I loved being at the Old Rep Theatre. You can watch this interview on Youtube here. Some of it was only finished in January but my audience know this album and they want it so I feel I’ve kind of walked backwards into this particular bout of success and it’s down to my audience supporting me and I’m very grateful. PHIL: Because that features in the documentary. Is that something you’ve seen recently – that documentary? PHIL: It was the “Warrior Rock” show (below) TOYAH: Yeah. TOYAH: But we are doing dates throughout the year right up until that point where we’re playing the new songs in so I feel the whole year is actually dedicated to the new album RICHARD: I know sometimes you do sort of more intimate concerts as well where you’re sort of a bit more slimmed down, dare I say a more acoustic - TOYAH: Well, at that time there was no social media, there were no mobile phones, no one could take pictures of me on the street so in a way that made it very easy to be a strange fish in a large pool. So I was a hair model for a very big department store from the age of 14 because I had remarkable hair and very quickly I started to dye my hair all colours under the rainbow and that gave me a very unique identity at the time. TOYAH: Toyah! Toyah! Toyah! (Watch the documentary here (My googledrive) PHIL: Do you get kind of taken back when you were singing them the first time around? TOYAH: (on the phone) Hello! I think I’ve been doing it for more years than your audience have been born for! TOYAH: My husband Robert and I have this conversation – we have it regularly, but we only had it two days ago – I’m now turning 61, he’s now turning 73 - And I had a new album out in April called “In The Court Of The Crimson Queen”, which is still doing incredibly well. It charted so we are going to be featuring that as well. JASON: It is that sort of vibe. Can I just ask you about … as we get older – about music. I love my music. I’m so lucky to have a job where I sit and – not only do I play music at home and in the car but play tracks to listeners as well – love it. When she came into the room – because in those days you’d have three months rehearsal for one of these drama series - when she came into the room she owned the room. It was “Hello darlings! How are you?” And everyone was included and the conversation was loud and brash and the stories were legendary – kind of 1960’s London. But of course she worked with Elvis Presley, she had a fling with Elvis Presley - so she branched right across to Hollywood and back. Her stories were rich in this vein of 1960’s rock culture. She was electrifying. So I’m in the Bristol area at the end of October playing The Fleece which is my favourite venue in the area. It’s hot, it’s sweaty. People queue around the block to get in and that for me is what music is about. MARK: How fantastic! And “Dance In The Hurricane” is fabulous. It kind of sums up somebody walking through your path in life and that is, may I say, what you’ve done brilliantly over the years, isn’t it? (They play “Dance In The Hurricane”) PHIL: I couldn’t speak, I couldn’t walk – I was just dumbfounded. TOYAH: Every time I do a recording I expect it to be the best thing I’ve ever done. And every time I walk on stage I expect it to be the best show I’ve ever done. That has never changed. Do the do compare? Yes. Recording a CD you always think about the connections it’s going to create. Therefore you’re thinking and hoping and expecting that that is going to connect you to a future. It’s always been the same, its never been any different. This year we’ve got “In The Court Of The Crimson Queen” coming out. It’s gone beyond on what we thought would happen. In the pre-order chart it went number one across the board. It’s out on April the 12th and fingers crossed we’ll get a chart position with that. But it’s just been great – in the last two days I’ve done 50 radio interviews and people are loving the music. So you ask what I am? This year I’m dominantly a singer but I’m also doing a movie. I’ve got a great movie coming up in June. TOYAH: Oh my God - I loved it! PHIL: This is the really exciting thing – the fact that you were playing Queen Elizabeth. You obviously didn’t play that role the first time round, you played “Mad” in the movie. I found that a really good connection because it really freshened things up, it made the production really exiting - TOYAH: It’s my work, it’s my identity so we are actually focusing on “Minx” and trying to get it back which means I could do an awful lot with it. TOYAH: Thank you so much Mark, great to talk to you! So because of the history of time to write and complete it it is commenting on things that have been going on for many many years. When we started writing this there was plenty of unrest in the world, there’s was plenty of things going on far away in other countries that none of us want to have happening. TOYAH: They would’ve definitely fitted and what’s interesting is we’re told if we’re doing an 80’s show - “keep it 80's” - but I didn’t realise that a lot of artists just don’t - TOYAH: Well, thank you. “Dance In The Hurricane” I think for me will be my epitaph, it’s what I want to be remembered for, it’s that one song I feel as an artist, thank you, I know why I’ve done this for 40 years. We only completed the song in January. Has it been fun? It seems to me you’ve had one of the most blessed careers. You’ve always been in work, you’ve always been relevant and it’s always been good stuff and that’s the trickiest thing, isn’t it? We can all work but is it good stuff? Because really I think it’s nobody’s business what your sexuality is and what your gender is. I’ve always kind of fought being seen as a person and I think that is on its way and that’s a good thing. TOYAH: Oh, huge horror fan! TOYAH: I don’t know but there’s some very special people out there. Mick Jagger and Keith Richards are a little like that as well. So this meant that people suddenly pricked up their ears and went oh! And we got offered a recording contract and we said we want to make this “In The Court Of The Crimson Queen” how we originally wanted it to be but with a bit of a budget. TOYAH: I was just very happy for her. I went backstage after to speak to her and to be with her for a bit. It’s funny … she - the success of it didn’t seemed to have touched her. She was just Kate and - TOYAH: It’s a mess that can’t be solved! It just can’t be solved! (Alex laughs) You know who ever gets that chalice is going to be poisoned. It just can’t - TOYAH: They should watch it. TOYAH: No, really … I’m clueless! I’m clueless! (Alex laughs) I don’t know how they’re going to do it - TOYAH ON PHIL MARRIOTT MEETS 3.4.2019. TOYAH: I’m really uncomfortable with being identified as feminine. I always have been. I’m very tomboy, I definitely have a masculine soul. I believe in reincarnation and I’m absolutely certain that I was Attila The Hun or something like that in a past life. I’m so masculine and it’s nothing to do with sexuality. It’s just to do with attitude. I think we have - all of us - the right to be our individual selves. TOYAH: Yeah. I’d like to control it. I often think if I could just stand still on stage I might be a better artist. I just don’t know where it comes from. RICHARD: It is. OK - so a relatively short set. Shorter than if you were doing your own show of course - TOYAH: Yeah, sometimes I have really amazing dreams that are so tangible that I think that was not a dream, that was something else – that was a lesson . So I always take those particularly seriously. At the moment I’m dreaming a lot about tidal waves - MARK: Wonderful. And of course a lot of that film is in our neck of the woods in Sussex - TOYAH: I’ve been on the road for 42 years (Jason laughs) But I suppose the present phenomena with me started in 2002. I was performing in a theatre in the West End and I got a fax saying “do you want to play Wembley Arena?” and I thought it was a joke. It was one of these big 80’s line-ups and I’ve just never looked back. TOYAH: Even though I didn’t have national success - the success that was going to come in '81 … On a kind of underground cult level I was phenomenally successful. Filling venues, touring all the time, charting. I had an album out in 79’ called “Blue Meaning” which went straight to number 2 in the album charts. TAMMY: My! That’s such a brilliant story! I absolutely love that! I love it! Because of course we know that you’ve always written songs that they kind of challenge and inspire and about being true to yourself . “I Want To Be Free” - I remember seeing that and thinking it’s awesome , I love that! TOYAH: I had success last year with a release called “Desire” and that just sold out and when the vinyl arrived through the post in my home I thought “oh, this is a really nice feeling!” I feel like an artist again – I’ve got vinyl! PHIL: Well, that’s it, dreams are I suppose a link to reality - it’s bouncing back off reality … TOYAH: My aspirations – I wanted to be the biggest rock star in the world (Tammy laughs) and the biggest actress in the world TAMMY: Oh well, there you go! PHIL: More psychological - TOYAH: Well, we sat down to relisten to the album about six months ago and we thought this is not a bad album. It still, like you said, feels very current. Simon Darlow, my co-writer and I - and by the way Simon plays everything on the album – we thought this deserves a worldwide commercial release. Let’s go with it, let’s add some fairy dust and the new tracks and just treat it as a new release. JASON: So it’s inspirational - PHIL: It’s a very small world, Toyah, because the video for “Sensational”, one of the tracks on the album, is directed by Dean Stockings - JASON: Toyah, that was absolutely magnificent ! Live on BBC Radio 2 here on “Good Morning Sunday”. You know what - as a parent, I’ve got three kids, you’ve kind of touched me here. Very emotional there listening to that, especially the words “be loud, be heard, be proud” TOYAH: Well, yes - TOYAH: No, I think it’s about 58 - TOYAH: Oh, thank you. At the Scoop Theatre four years ago. And some of the tracks have been in movies so we’ve now had the chance thanks to a record deal to group it together, repackage it, so I’d say to anyone out there who knows nothing about me this is actually a sparkly new album. TOYAH: And it took me a year to explain to him that those four bars are so magical that they have to be the opening song on this album. And we made it happen and I still believe after days and days of radio promo (Tammy laughs) that “Dance In A Hurricane” is the one song I want to be remembered for. JASON: They loved it and they got into “Rocketman” so they’ve got into Elton’s songs a bit later - PHIL: Seeing the future – with your songs, with your songwriting - TOYAH: Oh no, I watch horror all the time. “Piewit” (?) or something is on my desk at the moment to watch. You really got me there … Oh, I think the remake “Halloween” was the last one - PHIL: The second time I was upstairs and I kind of saw the whole stage but the first time I was right by the stage and I couldn’t walk afterwards. It was a really bizarre thing - ALEX: If there is one woman who can sort it out it’s you! TOYAH: I would just like a percentage of that (Tammy laughs) TAMMY: She is a business woman after all! (both laughs) Toyah, we need to reminiscence a little bit because you grew up – is it in King’s Heath in Birmingham? You’ve got to bear in mind I believe my husband and I are slightly on the spectrum of autism and Asperger’s. We don’t compromise with each other. He felt I was not playing to the metronome and he refused to play any more with me TAMMY: Oh no! TOYAH: So yeah, you might be able to hear us arguing about playing together (Tammy laughs) but actually playing together … no! TAMMY: (laughs) “In The Court Of The Crimson Queen” is the new album from Toyah. You are touring – do you still get that buzz from being on the road all these years on? TOYAH: You mean the terror? Yeah, I do! (Tammy laughs) It’s what I do. I’ve never done anything else. It’s part of me. Yes, I do get nervous but I would be more nervous if I wasn’t doing it, so there you go. For the next track – I think it should be “Telepathic Lover” which is great one to rock out to. PHIL: Being put in a box? But back then you didn’t get radio coverage if you were an album selling artist so I was enjoying success, wonderful success – it’s probably one of the happiest times of my life because everything had a Midas Touch to it – my acting and my music and I had no idea what was about to come in 1981. It was a lovely time of innocence and joy with everything doing really really well. JASON: Good stuff! Well, listen, thank you so much for coming in to see us. I know you’re going to play some live music with your band … By the way who’ve got here this morning? TOYAH: Well, I don’t feel old enough (laughs) Life is very good at the moment so I feel exactly the same I did forty years ago. PHIL: Because you’re doing 30 shows this year. Over 30 - JASON: Yes, it is (laughs) TOYAH: I just don’t pick up negativity and we can talk about this in a minute. My mother was particularly negative and I’ve learned to survive and it’s as simple as that. We are all gloriously miraculous just being here, floating on a rock in a very immense universe - TOYAH: Yeah! I don’t know whether it’s my pituitary glands or what, I like to think it’s an other-worldly force PHIL: I wanted to ask about identity because when you were young you resented femininity - And let me put this in perspective – it’s in the office from 8 in the morning til about 4 in the afternoon, drive to the venue, do a gig, drive home, back in the office til 4 in the morning. That’s the schedule. No one wants to be a part of that. I kind of have to find people with an equal amount of insomnia that I have. It’s hard … it’s hard. But it’s wonderful. Therefore I’ve had complete freedom to choose my path and it meant that I created my own projects and they all did very very well and even today I manage myself, which means I can remain true to myself TAMMY: Toyah, it’s interesting isn’t it, because we talked about kind of walking your own path and being yourself and having autonomy. Are you then defiantly walking your own path in 2019? How is life? PHIL: Yeah, at Battersea - TOYAH: Yeah, Boy George very kindly tweeted the link to the video so he’s been very supportive. PHIL: You’re not one to look back, you just want to concentrate on what’s coming up? RICHARD: Wow! That’s nice though, isn’t it? TOYAH: I love that documentary. I’d love to own it, I could do a lot with that. It was shot and directed by Graham Moore. I am so grateful because that turned everything around for me. To have an hour long documentary on ITV on a Thursday night, 9 o'clock, prime time. It was phenomenal! Really all he angels were looking after me that day because it was all the music – and this was before “It’s A Mystery” - PHIL: I was going to say this was before you really became successful. I mean you were successful then because you had a loyal fan base - RICHARD: Hello! How are you doing? TOYAH: It’s amazing! “I Want To Be Free” is always the fun one because they always sing along to everything I do but somehow “I Want To Be Free” has an anarchy to it still so they not only sing along – they shout it along! TAMMY: Oh, is it?! Ooh! TOYAH: People who refuse to believe have said they will never go in hat house again - ALEX: You look amazing and you sound better than ever. I just stood here for twenty minutes watching you soundcheck for a gig tonight and my God! What a voice! I mean it’s operatic, isn’t it? I didn’t know about punk rock and this was about 1974/5 and then a friend said to me “you should really go and see the Sex Pistols” at Bogart’s in Birmingham. That was ‘75 and I really thought up until that point I was the only punk in the village. I was in a room with 350 kids who were all dying their hair, all making their own clothes. And I thought “where were you?! I’m been so lonely so many years!” And here we all are – the tribe. It was a very lucky time for me. TAMMY: Awww … TOYAH: And we live in a time when social media … it’s so lacking in intelligence and imagination to be critical. Negativity is easy, that’s why it flows. I think it takes a strong person to complement another. You come across young girls who have no confidence but you also come across boys who’ve no confidence and I’ve seen more eating disorders for example in boys than I have in girls. We should all have a right to tell someone, even if we know them or don’t know them, that they are remarkable. I’m always going up to someone saying “my God you look fantastic!” because I appreciate the making the effort. TOYAH: Well yeah, it’s inevitable it’s going to be Greatest Hits because I’ve released in my career 28 albums and I’ve got to cherry-pick from this catalogue what we’re going to be playing so virtually every song is a single. TOYAH: Well, some women would’ve wanted that job. I just didn’t want that job. It wasn’t hard to walk out on that one. For me I think knowing that I was not tall, not particularly feminine – that I had to just be individualistic and I knew that was how I was going to survive. Which kind of made me very bombastic and full of bravado. I just knew I haven’t got the feminine card to play. ALEX: And what a great time to be alive and working. I don’t know if we started today we would have the same stories. There are those type of legends around you can speak of and people take in a breath. TOYAH: Thank you Alex, good to meet you. PHIL: And a lot of those songs are quite dark as well – I think a lot of young people would resonate - PHIL: You’ve always been a fan as have I. You were the first artist I ever saw live in 1982 - TOYAH: Wow! An in a song like “Bad Man” I’m talking about – we so often put people into cliched images, cliched accusations where actually, deep beneath the skin, they’re pussycats. So I like to invert meanings and I like to throw away stereotypes. ALEX: You’ve achieved so much in your career. I mean when I read down the list of 24 albums and 40 shows you’ve appeared in, over 30 films. I mean it’s a remarkable legacy you’re leaving for the world to enjoy. PHIL: In like two years, what is it – it was ’ 85 - TOYAH: The world has changed considerably and I’m learning every day about what a download chart is, what downloads are, how people can write and respond and comment online. It’s still a huge learning curve for me. I feel as if I’m coming to the tip of the tidal wave and learning to surf it. TOYAH: I was pretty much the driving force. There’s two blades to my career – I’m not the kind of artist that the mega managers want to manage. I’m just not in that league but also people realise I’m very good at managing myself, which is what I do. I’m very quirky, I don’t fit in any mold therefore I think my lack of international success has allowed to mold myself into what I am today. RICHARD: Ah yes, yes - TOYAH: Because that is a song of inclusion and we open the set with that and the whole audience is dancing and singing it back RICHARD: It’s always good to open with a belter that they know, isn’t it? In terms of what you have to put in your set list - TOYAH: Some of them are prophetic so when I’m singing “Neon Womb” my mother was still alive but when I wrote it I was aware of the future so there’s little things like that. The same with “Race Through Space”. TOYAH: So every day I went to my office and I looked at number 4 Flood Street, Chelsea, where she lived and I thought “I wonder if she knows?” TOYAH IN CLASSIC POP MAGAZINE MAY 2019 (ISSUE 52) TOYAH: And the vinyl is bright cerise pink PHIL: For Record Store Day. I think it brings back the excitement of buying music, doesn’t it? TOYAH: Well, vinyl I think is saving the music business at the moment. It’s the biggest seller. When we announced the vinyl I went straight to number one in the pre-order charts across the board so it just shows how popular vinyl is. TOYAH: Thank you so much, Richard! RICHARD: 20th of October in The Fleece in Bristol, yea h. It’s highly individualistic and I think people want to be seen as individuals today than any other time in history. So I just think it’s all encompassing. I know I wrote it for stadiums so it’s perfect when you’ve got an environment like today. TOYAH: I think I would’ve found a way. If I was in the world today as a teenager I would’ve been on social media, I would’ve been on Youtube. I would’ve found a way. I was a pretty outrageous kid and I’ve always liked challenging taboos and there’s still plenty of taboos to challenge. That’s the biggest advice I give to anyone on Youtube. Look at the taboos and break them. TOYAH: It’s a really good question because I have to work - psychologically I have to work. If the phone isn’t ringing or I’m not creating something I don’t really exist. I just sit there … blank. So I always create projects and by creating projects other things come in. I mean last year I was playing Queen Elizabeth the First in the stage version of “Jubilee” which was a complete surprise. But also it featured my music. JASON: Which is “Dance In The Hurricane” - TOYAH: The year has just gone crazy! ALEX: I’m alright. How are you? TOYAH: They’re very loyal. I perform live a lot. Mainly in England, I do four shows a week throughout the year. I tour two shows constantly – one is the acoustic show which allows the older members of my audience to feel that they can relax and sit and listen to stories and music and then I have my really loud energetic rock band that tends to play on Saturday and Sundays (they both chuckle) That’s when people can dance for 90 minutes. RICHARD: I know, because it’s been a bit cloudy and a bit overcast … The sun’s come out, it’s blisteringly hot - TOYAH: The audience are already up for it and what is it? It’s barely one o'clock and they’re just having the time of their lives already. This is what’s it’s about. This is about them. And it’s about good weather and a beautiful beautiful location. It’s looking like a perfect day already. TOYAH: They’re wonderfully dark - TOYAH: No, I wouldn’t. Really. I don’t have that knowledge (Alex laughs) And I’m not good at being criticised and having negativity thrown at you 24 hours a day. It’s just lovely and all of your paraphernalia around the house, fabulous! How is life living in Worcestershire with your husband, you’re both very famous … And that’s kind of a big message within “In The Court Of The Crimson Queen”, especially within “Sensational”. That the world is yours, it just needs to be slightly reorganised and you’re going to be the people to do it. ALEX: Help me with what it’s like being a woman in 2019? Where are we at now? It must be very difficult because we’ve got #MeToo and all of that. What would you have thought of that if that was around in the 60’s? Does it help or not help? (They play “Sensational”) TOYAH: It’s just been fantastic. So it’s a double edged sword. It’s been good, it’s been difficult and I think in the long term it’s been a blessing. I just don’t fit in anywhere and people don’t know how to manage me. But I realise because of that I’ve created my own projects and they’ve done well. Does that make sense? TOYAH: You’ve got to bear in mind I’ve got 42 to years of - PHIL: Oh yeah, that was great, I was so buzzing about that because it’s my favourite all time film - And then it’s lead to adding the five new songs on “In The Court Of The Crimson Queen” and it’s going at the speed of light! So sixty so far – and I’ve only got one month left being sixty – has been one of the best years of my life. ALEX: It’s inspiring though – that old school ethic. He wanted to put on a show and he wouldn’t get off stage until he felt he’d done that. The new songs actually work very well. When you’re playing acoustically it allows you to work with the harmonics, they just stand out better. It’s a very satisfying thing to do. We did a small court room in Otley last Saturday and we had a stage invasion (Richard laughs) And it was absolutely hysterical . The three of us on stage in this tiny venue and we had a stage invasion. It has the same energy and the same intention as the band shows. JASON: Very well said - TOYAH: No one’s going to tell me I’m not good - ALEX: How incredible. I wonder where you got that tenacity and confidence from? Was it your parents, was it your family? Where did you did find that from within you where other girls may have felt forced to do what ever he wanted of them - you had the tenacity to stand up and walk out. Most people wouldn’t be that brave … PHIL: Yeah, because you’ve got a lot of new tracks on there as well. TOYAH: We’re asking the record company to give that back to me at the moment. A lot record companies own stuff that they’re not active with and we believe as artists it’s our human right to ask for it back - ALEX: That we only need your first name - ALEX: I just have to rewind there, just a couple of things I want to pick up on. First of all I would imagine Katherine Hepburn was a lovely lovely lady. Did you sit down, get down time, you know – get Hollywood stories from her? TOYAH: Y eah, I agree with everything you’ve just said. Also I think a lot of artists don’t realise that if you’re not on top of the business side that’s when problems come in. It’s as easy as that. You just have to keep an eye on everything and I do admit that most business people are slightly scared of me because I pick things up very quickly (Alex laughs) “Excuse me, what’s that in the contract? Excuse me! ” TOYAH: Yeah and the fans have made it a huge success already. Two weeks ago in the pre-order chart, which is what happens now and it gives you a sense if something will chart – I went number one across the board in all the rock charts in the pre-orders - RICHARD: Are where are you Toyah on that one, I’m just going to pin you down, are you a vinyl sort of tactile person – I suspect you probably are - RICHARD: They would’ve fitted though wouldn’t they - because they were songs of empowerment and so are some of the songs from back you’re doing today? TAMMY: What’s that about? TOYAH: It’s the only life I know. I couldn’t be any other way and I don’t feel I’ve actually arrived yet. I can only put this is perspective and this is a direct quote from Lulu on Radio 2. Someone asked her a similar question and she said “I’m hoping to be discovered ” and you know that’s what it feels like! (Alex laughs) TOYAH: I’m really good, thank you. JASON: Nice too see you. Listeners now know what this studio is like here in Salford. What’s it like being back on the road and you’ve got a record out as well, Toyah? JASON: OK, we’d love to hear it. JASON: Love it! Toyah live here on BBC Radio 2. Lot’s of our listeners are getting in touch – this is lovely, this is Sally who says “Good morning Jason, good morning Toyah. I’m absolutely loving Toyah’s words and music and listening to you talking about losing our parents – we lost our dad many years ago and our mum in March this year. We miss them both very much indeed” … but your words have provided comfort for them this morning - ALEX: It is depressing in 2019 as I sit here shocked that you tell me that men would just come and grope you. It’s incredible to me as a 39 year old man. I can’t imagine a world where that existed but that was the case. TOYAH: And “Hurricane” is surviving loss and finding positivity and love again. It’s a very passionate song that I feel I only could’ve written at the age of sixty. I love it and to hear you say you love it means a lot. TOYAH: Yes. I am doing what I want to do. Did you know that Ken Dodd had a clause in all his contracts that he couldn’t go on beyond midnight? RICHARD: Sneak a tune in - TOYAH: Yeah, they don’t do what they’re told. So next time … I’ll sneak in “Hurricane” and “21st Century Super Sister” and “Sensational” - TOYAH: So good, so good! What did they think of it? PHIL: Oh, I haven’t seen – Lars Von … PHIL: Now, we’ve got the album which you’ve just put on the table. I have to say gorgeous because of the colours of this … But as we get older I often have these conversations – my kids love music as well – have these conversations you know “can we put something else on, kids?” Am I getting old or is that something that happens when it comes to music? MARK: Thank you. Bonnie Tyler was on the show the other day and she sounded like she is having the time of her life, she is into her sixties and absolutely loves it. She’s got a new album out as well at the moment and you sound like this is the best time in your life as well? TOYAH: It’s been very frustrating to live with that amount of ambition. Very frustrating TAMMY: Interestingly I did read a story and you can correct me if I’m wrong, because there’s loads of rubbish out there … At school, didn’t you set off an alarm clock during a visit to the school by a certain PM? TOYAH: I did. Just imagine doing this today. Margaret Thatcher was the Minister of Education I think about ‘72. She came to my very posh all girl school to talk about the future of education to the pupils, to the parents and the teachers and me just being an absolute wally (Tammy laughs) … PHIL: These are people that have such rich life experience, it was perfect for the role, wasn’t it? TOYAH: It was brilliantly cast. Every single person in that play had a message – have a message. They’re all activists, they’re all sexual politics activists, they’re all gender activists, they’re political activists and for me being good 40 years older than most of them … I had to learn a new language. But some people just have this aura that just blows you away! I had to sit with Zack Efron for an interview once. Gorgeous boy! Absolutely gorgeous but I could just feel the aura pushing me out of the picture … (Alex laughs) TOYAH: OK. Well, I think “Suspiria” is a classic. It works, it wasn’t broken, don’t mend it PHIL: So what was the last horror you saw? Was it “It”? Or “The House That Jack Built”? TOYAH: Yes, that’s going to be rocking! That is “In The Court Of The Crimson Queen” tour so that’s going to be very loud. TOYAH : So I just feel this is all part of a greater thing TAMMY: Hmm. Yeah, I think you’re right as well. Talking of home, you know, we have two magnificent musicians living in one house … Is there any chance that the neighbours, as mush as they’re being very cool about you being there and all of that – do they ever hear you having a little jam in the living room? No … or? (laughs) I’d love to live on your street – can you imagine! PHIL: Do you still suffer from insomnia - TOYAH: It’s terrible! And people get so annoyed with me because I’m pinging out emails all hours of the night. I only achieve deep sleep between seven and ten in the morning. Tracks like “Sensational”, which is being treated as a single at the moment. That was written in 2007 and it’s been in my set, in my live touring for all that time and the audience know every single word to it. So I don’t know if you know the story of what happened and why this album is being released? TOYAH: I’m really good, it’s the most perfect day. Summer is definitely here! It’s that whole kind of social gathering of people just wanting desperately to get in and then giving them a 150% in a lovely sweaty atmosphere. So I’m doing – well, I’m just working the whole year doing music. The album has been a phenomenal success. It’s been a critical success … So that’s going to keep me going - TOYAH: Well, we were guests with PRS (Stage) (below), we played there about three years ago. It was magnificent. You can feel … you arrive in this massive kind of city of people and you can feel it! It’s very very wonderful! And so upbeat ! That might sound strange – I’m scared of big crowds but everyone was so happy! RICHARD: Great! TOYAH: And at that time I was an unsigned artist and politically to get radio play and presence you have to be on a label. So a label called Demon Records said “we have to release this because there’s an audience who desperately want it”. So the first song of the album, “Sensational”, did start its life around 2009. It became the theme for Weight Watchers so it was on telly all the time. ALEX: It seems like you were born to be on stage. When we look back to your childhood that’s sort of in a congress in a way because you were so shy and so bullied and really to stand up on stage today must be a huge strain still or is it a second home? PHIL: Good to see you Toyah, all the best. JASON: I just want to ask you about Glastonbury. Have you done Glastonbury? JASON: Yay! Thank you very much indeed. Lovely to see you, God bless, thank you. So we added drums, we added bass, remixed and remastered and we added five new tracks. So this album has already had an extraordinary life. It was only available to the fans but virtually every track on the album has been in the musical version of “Crime And Punishment” - And we have to remain a creative society. If we’re too busy losing ourselves in our phones we’re going to lose a cultural strength because we are all brilliant at expressing ourselves. We must be encouraged to go deep and express ourselves and that’s what songwriting is. TAMMY: I’m alright. How are you? TOYAH: OK, this is a really important track to me. It’s off “In The Court Of The Crimson Queen” and it was originally written because we wanted to – Simon Darlow, my co-writer and I – wanted to submit it to the Paralympics and partly because I’ve had to learn to walk again three times. PHIL: The psyche. Listen Toyah, it’s been fantastic to see you. I wish you all the best with the album “In The Court Of The Crimson Queen” - TOYAH: Thank you. TOYAH: I don’t think there is ego. I think she’s incredibly clever like that. There’s incredible knowledge, very hard work, but I don’t think there’s ego. But she is very protective of her work. TOYAH: Oh, definitely! Yes, and I think about 8 years ago a very famous supermarket based it’s clothing line on my look in ‘79 so I am aware of that but I don’t behave like an influencer. I just want to be me and I want to be a creative person. I can’t give my life to continual Instagram and facebook. I just can’t do it. It’s too busy. But I am aware of it and I’m also very respectful of it as well. PHIL: Ooh … TOYAH: And they’re in the most bizarre places. I live on the river Avon and I keep dreaming about tidal waves coming down the river Avon - TOYAH: Yeah. And that was very important because Derek - like most men of his persuasion back then … because he suffered a lot. He suffered a lot of physical violence and verbal violence and he had a really horrible death. And luckily people aren’t dying quite like that from the AIDS virus now. JASON: Did the Welsh crowd treat you well? MARK: Isn’t it funny, I can remember the day after I got married I was asked when will the children be coming along - TOYAH: Yeah, her voice was incredible. The creativity meant more to me back then and there was no sense back then of eating clean, eating healthy. You were going to live for ever. Everyone felt they were going to live forever. If you told someone that you needed to eat clean to have longevity you’d go “nah, that’s just rubbish” so we were just eating what ever we could get our hands on and it wasn’t much in those days. Vegetarianism was a hard thing to follow in those days. We have a right to clarify what we need to excel and be our best and I personally believe that we are all here with nothing but potential in our bodies. Part of that potential is identifying, honing down, clarifying who and what you are. I’m so profoundly uncomfortable having to be feminine that it effects me - PHIL: I know that you worked with some amazing people in “Jubilee”, the theatre show (below) obviously based on the movie that you were in - RICHARD: OK, so they’re all sort of great songs that people love to sing along to - TOYAH: Yeah, I’ve kept to the 80’s – it never occurred to me to put new material in. My album that was out in April went into the charts … It never occurred to me to feature any of that (laughs) You know, this is an 80’s festival so I’m kind of happy doing that - TOYAH: And that point when it’s so hot I’m so thankful for them being there, for being awake ! (laughs) TOYAH: It’s my birthday - TOYAH: I find that quite a romantic thing to do. For me the future is a bed of roses. TOYAH: Yeah, for Grace Jones. I have no memory of that at all that I was actually the singer that he tested it out on- So “Heal Ourselves” was about community, sisterhood, brotherhood, sticking together, not allowing the media to make enemies of ourselves. And ironically “Bad Man” is about the fact we are so quick to label someone with the label of “bad man” rather than see why they behave in such a way or their circumstance or how they feel they have to act when they’re in public and it actually says “I see though you, I see through you like glass. I see your heart” TAMMY: That’s amazing, isn’t it? TOYAH: Well, it’s busy, it’s very busy and I would do anything to find a PA at this moment in time (they both laugh) because I do four shows a week and I get home and I live in your area and I’m in the office til six in the morning doing contracts for the band. It’s very busy, I run a very successful business, which in being Toyah Willcox. TOYAH: I knew all my life I’d never have children but no one listens. It was very very difficult. And I also I found that people who had children didn’t trust me. If I went to dinner parties or parties people didn’t want to talk to me and that was very peculiar but I’m well through that now. But … back then it was expected of you. I had a dietician, he weighed me weekly. I was weighed before I did Top Of The Pops. I was complicit, it was absolutely fine. It was the every day and what you’ve got to remember is I had songs to write, I had scripts to learn, I had venues to get to. We were permanently in front of the cameras. On one day I could do a photo session, five interviews and a two and half hour show. It was just full on. RICHARD: Absolutely superb. So that’s the sort of example you’re giving for out here today. It may be a shorter set but you know, they’re well into it, you’re well into it, it’s the perfect mix on a summer Saturday … TOYAH: Yeah, I think 80’s music is coming to its own, its free of the politics of the 80’s now and it’s almost free of the fashion to a certain extent. ALEX: I don’t think you can see you as the rest of the world sees you. A) you are a sex symbol – my father for instance (Toyah cracks up laughing) thinks you’re delicious. I mean as you sit here you look stunning and beautiful. I don’t know why you constantly in interviews always say that you were fat and ugly as a child and not pretty and all of that. You know you are now, right? I mean what have you got to prove today? So if I was to criticise I would say go beyond the telephone and listen to Elton John, listen to Rolling Stones because the depth of what they’re saying is so truthful - RICHARD: But why, Toyah? Part of it is that it’s so special. You feel the energy. There is a definite change in atmosphere when you’ve got that amount people in front of you. I find it overwhelming. I did a guest appearance in Glastonbury three years ago and I felt as if my feet needed to be nailed to the ground. I just felt as if though I was levitating off the ground. TOYAH: “Dance In The Hurricane” to be brutally honest is about overcoming the grief of losing your parents. I lost my parents ten years ago and my life has never been the same and I’m still really only finding my feet but I believe grief makes us strong and “Dance In The Hurricane” is a song of victory over grief - PHIL: Yeah, it’s you work isn’t it? PHIL: Do you know what it is? Can you identify what that surge is? TOYAH: Yes. Anything to do with demonic possession I can’t really watch. It’s too suggestive for me. But that happened in those days! It did happen. In a way I’m really glad I met Russ Meyer because that age – that kind of “Boogie Nights” age of movie making is no more. And I was almost a part of it. TOYAH: The thing is I try to make today relevant. I think it’s really important to be present and accept who and what you are in the present. So I think the reason the past is a blur I’m always focusing on what I do today and seizing opportunities to do with the future so the past doesn’t really get a look in that much - PHIL: The goblins yeah and that obviously got remade recently too. Did you see the remake? I can remember getting to Manchester on a Sunday and finding nowhere to eat. You could just about get a bag of chips and that was it. So those kind of things back then you didn’t consider. All you considered was the speed and the competitiveness of getting an album finished, getting the best tour on the road and then starting all over again. ALEX: I’ve seen you loads of times and I know it’s a great show. So it’s forty years so that’s 1979. I remember you first with the EP “Four From Toyah” with “It’s A Mystery”, which I guess was early ‘81. And we talked about earlier – you were doing “Minder” and quite a lot of acting so what were you doing in '79 and 80’ just before you broke through on Top Of The Pops? TOYAH: It’s a parody? TOYAH: It was a really good time. That was a good time for everyone. Everything was possible. I think life was easier for us young 'uns back then and I think that documentary just caught me brilliantly. TOYAH: And I will sing as long as I can still hit those top notes and I can walk on stage. So I intend to keep on going as long as I’m still in love with what I do. And I am still in love with what I do TAMMY: Good. TOYAH: Huge challenge! But one that I loved. I’m very grateful to have met these wonderful people who work very hard. They earn a lot less than I used to earn when I was their age and I really appreciated how they struggled and still had huge hearts and huge ambitions but they were still living in a world that was less just than the world I was in at that age. And I feel very passionately for them and their talent and that they get what they deserve in life and they deserve everything. TOYAH: Yes, I kind of ran back on stage looking incredulous and everyone thought I was delivering the speech in a different way! They thought “ oh , she’s going at this differently tonight” and the look on my face was I’ve almost been shut out of the theatre! PHIL: Well, there we go - JASON: Which is just round the corner, if I’d been home Friday night I would’ve come and see you, I would’ve seen you twice at the weekend! TOYAH: I did “Taming Of The Shrew” (above) at Theatre Royal in 1988, could be in '89 (Edit : it was August 1990). I was about to go on stage for the very last speech, it’s a very big speech for “Kate” and the stage door opened - which is right at the back of the stage - and a fan grabbed me and pulled me onto the street for an autograph! (They both laugh) I was in shock! I didn’t know what to do, everyone was waiting on stage for me in the big banquet scene and I was going “oh gosh, help help!” RICHARD GREEN: Let’s have a chat now with a wonderful lady who’s got some brand new music coming out. She’s been doing the business for many years, probably more years than she cares to remember! Toyah is with me - hi Toyah! TOYAH: I think those people that can use it creatively are very very lucky. Kate Bush I think does most of her creative writing through the night. I can’t be that creative, I can be very functional. I can do all the mundane in the office but to sit down and write a song at 2 in the morning, that’s not going to happen with me. ALEX: What about a Prime Minister? You’d make a marvellous job … TOYAH: This is what I love about doing these acoustic shows – I get to see real places and we play what I call real venues. They’re very small, they’re very personal. Last week I did a tiny judge house in Otley up in Yorkshire and you’d think these are going to be tame and people just sit down and enjoy it … we had a stage invasion! (Mark laughs) These are very funny events because of the intimacy. JASON: You’re on social media as well, I was talking to Donovan about the dangers of it but you love it! People engage with you as well, Toyah, on social - TOYAH: Well, the one musician you’re mentioning is actually an incredible songwriter. I think if you are the best songwriter in the world you have the right to criticise. I’m still learning, I learn every day - as a songwriter, as a human being. TOYAH: Yes! (laughs) TOYAH: Yeah … When you say problems I think basically at the moment I’m being ghosted by them because I won’t go away. Yes … It’s just one of those things. It’s a phenomenally successful back catalogue so I want to nurture it and mother it. TOYAH: We really love where we are. We feel that – it’s obviously our home, we’ve been there for 17 years, but we feel that out of everything we do – and we both tour the world constantly, we want to go back to where we live. TOYAH: I don’t fly off the handle as quickly as I used to and I’m really good at negotiating. I even have other agents and other artists phone me up and say “could you negotiate this?” And I go “ c'mon! Grow a pair!” (Alex laughs) TOYAH: Hey! Good to see you too! PHIL: And they’ve got Derek Jarman’s outlook as well. Recorded at the Let’s Rock Wales 2019 festival in Tredegar Park, Newport. I was born with a spine defect so I know what’s it’s like to keep running up that hill and get back on your feet. We wrote “Sensational” because we felt it was important (to write about) that everyone is utterly remarkable – no matter what body shape, what height you are, where you come from … we are sensational - RICHARD: Lovely to talk to you, Toyah! “Heal Ourselves” came about because at the time it was written we were really conscious about artist’s responsibility towards being positive in the the world when the world is completely bloody crazy and we wanted to write something that really completely connected the artist to the audience so that became “Heal Ourselves" And then there’s two songs which are wonderful which are “Heal Ourselves” and also “Sensational” - which is literally sensational. I don’t think you’ve ever sounded better! Congratulations on this. It’s so beautifully produced. RICHARD: It certainly is. Shall we hear one of the songs from it? The opening single is “Sensational” - which is a good title for a song, isn’t it? Really - (laughs) PHIL: Do you see him much now? TOYAH: We talk more than we see each other because Dean now works for Boy George full time so I get to hear a lot about what both of them are up to. I know Boy George wants to do an album with me – I’m not sure when we can fit it in - I took five alarm clocks into the school very early and set them to go off under the stage (Tammy laughs) at two minute intervals. She was working to time, she hit that stage at 3 pm, exactly at the time as the alarm clocks were set to go off and she didn’t bat an eyelid and everyone knew it was me TAMMY: Oh my word … TOYAH: The irony of that – in '81 and I’m talking about 9 years later, my office - and I was the biggest female singer in Europe at this time, my office was across the road from her home - TAMMY: You seem – in spite of your fame and success, it certainly hasn’t gone to your head – very grounded, and live in Worcestershire and I’m kind of just wondering if you get that double take in where you live or have the locals just accepted you as one of their own? I did see a thing on TV, an antiques programme, that was looking in your house and I was like “I’d die for a house like that!” TOYAH: It taps in - TOYAH: I always get the name wrong. It is genuinely shocking. Matt Dillon is mind-blowing, everyone is mind-blowing in it and what I love about it it’s one of the first films I’ve seen other than “It” - which was enjoyably shocking – this, “The House That Jack Built” is breathtakingly disturbing. So my shows are fun, they’re high energy and there’s a little bit of storytelling but with the electric band our aim is to get the audience on their feet having a really lovely time, enjoying good rock music that they can dance to and usually they’re singing along as well. TOYAH: Really good, thank you. Really good. TOYAH: I like to think it’s something outside of me rather than a brain condition (laughs) ALEX: Oh no! But did you make it just in the nick of time? Chris came to see me to ask me to give advice to the cast. Gender fluid, some were gender neutral, some were transitioning and he said could I give them advice about what it was like to be a punk rocker back then, which was very much gender orientated. I said yeah I’d happily do it and I said “can I be in it?” And he said “I wanted you to ask that!” (Phil laughs) So I just jumped on that. And what a glorious cast! TOYAH: I love it. Some people have described it as pure joy and is a joyous album and there’s absolutely no point in me trying to be serious and adult. I do energy and I think this album has it and yes, I really love it. I’ve been living with some of these songs as long as ten years. TAMMY: Wow! I love that. And loads of films including “Quadrophenia”, loads of stage plays and books and the music. If you look back down the road leading you to where you are now – would you change anything, would you have done anything differently, Toyah? And the next time was Bowie approached my husband Robert Fripp and I at an event at the hotel Intercontinental on Park Lane, about 1986 and Bowie came up and asked Robert to join Tin Machine. And I stood there and I just “… ah …” (looks lovesick) and just backed out of the room. I just couldn’t take it! The guy was just … his ego – not his ego, his aura was so immense it just went into yours! It was breathtaking. TOYAH: I remember forty was considered middle age when I was a child and I feel fantastic. I’m actually enjoying life now more than ever before. I tell young people I see you’ve really got this to look forward to. Don’t let anybody put it down, this is great! TAMMY: Your glass is half full and I like that, it’s infectious already. The new album “In The Court Of The Crimson Queen”. I love that. Described as revelatory and accomplished. Now the accomplished bit seems about right about someone who’s been making music for so many years but the revelatory bit – do tell? TOYAH: Well, it’s an interesting one really. Its a very happy “up” album, it contains a lot of joy within the music. And the lyrics – I’m a lyricist – so are spikey and I like to invert meanings. Songs like “Heal Ourselves”, which is about communities helping themselves to feel stronger and to bond more, I kind of take on the role of protector. You don’t expect a woman to do that, even in these days you don’t expect a woman to offer protection in a masculine way. TOYAH: Boy George wants to write and produce it which would be interesting from my point of view as a writer but I never say never and I think let’s see what happens. PHIL: I seem to remember you came on (stage) as part of your tour to the music of “Suspiria”? RICHARD: I mean that must be an awesome feeling? But there’s always something to prove. Time moves on. Nothing is fixed. And I think only your Hendrix and your Bowie and your John Lennons have that “nothing to prove” music that is their legacy. I’m not quite there yet. I’m trying my damnedest but I’m not quite there yet. PHIL: Have their minds blown how – well, different in some ways but not in others – still the same artist - With the acoustic show I tell stories but it is music led. It’s me, two guitarists and we all sing. But people get up and they want to sing and they want to dance. It’s fantastic! And tell me, where’s the other place I’m playing in your area? JASON: No. Very true, very true. You must get that energy as well from your crowds – not talking about the sweaty crowd on Friday night but I mean you must get so much positivity from that - She was a very generous actress to work with. She allowed me close-ups, she would allow me to sit in her dressing room while her make-up was being done and we’d talk about how we wanted the scene to go. She was a phenomenal person and I feel very lucky that my career started at a time that allowed me to work with Hollywood greats. RICHARD: Oh, your birthday? TOYAH: And our anniversary and his birthday. We don’t have parties. My husband is what’s known famously as a recluse. So we have a home in the South of France. JASON: And also, Toyah, that positivity, Donovan our rapper and our guru came in today, he spoke so much sense, I love what he said : “don’t be negative, give yourself shot at the title”. I’m so going to use that every day - TOYAH: Well, we’re here I think for a purpose. No matter what you do we’re a part of a greater picture and I think negativity can just stop you. It stops you moving forward and believe me - I have my own battles with myself and that’s very evident in my music but best things come in life when you’re positive and you see that the glass is half full rather than half empty. JASON: Absolutely. Great advice. What are you going to play for us next? What’s the significance of this next record? I totally agree! I don’t feel I’ve arrived yet, I’m not known as a film star. I have lovely cameo roles in films and I work in films. I also help co-produce and finance for films which I love. I’m very passionate about all of that. TOYAH: Thank you so much! TOYAH: He used to go on til six in the morning! (Alex laughs) That’s more energy than I’ve got! TOYAH: Well, I feel the same about books. I like to have a book in my hands so yes, you’re right. It’s a product and you own it RICHARD: Yeah. So tell us then what’s going to happen with this album. You said there the audience have got it up to number one in the pre-order chart, which is absolutely fantastic. What sort of welled up in your inner spirit when you realised you were going to be number one, you’re going to get good traction on this album? There’s songs on there I’m just so proud of like “Dance In The Hurricane”, “Heal Ourselves”, “Legacy”, “21st Century Super Sister”. I am really really proud of those songs so I think I’m only arriving now. And it’s kinda good because I’m not sure how long I can keep doing it for! MARK: So 10th of May St John’s Church in Farncombe and The Haunt in Brighton, which is much later in year, 2nd of November. TOYAH: It’s a very very lucky place to be, to be in show business and to be in it for 42 years. My husband, who’s Robert Fripp, (below, with Toyah) says if you live long enough everyone falls in love with you again. There’s definitely been yo-yo moments when it’s been a huge struggle and you just keep going! ALEX: You’re a singer, you’re an actress, you’re a personality, you’re a star at heart. What do you want to be? TOYAH: Yeah. I’m touring all year. I started touring the album in March. I go right up to Wembley Arena in December. There’s a lot of really lovely things going on. ALEX: Are we going to sit down in another ten years at 71 and you’re going to say the same thing? I mean at what point are you going to give yourself a break and look down on your CV? Just Wikipedia yourself? I mean there’s a lot going on there, you must be at least proud even if you don’t think you’ve arrived? TOYAH: Oh yeah, the goblins. TOYAH: Can I tell you my Winchester story really quickly? TOYAH: That was extraordinary. When she walked on in that really almost – I think the word is sardonic pace it was - she was just so relaxed! I mean I would run on! But she had everyone follow behind her. It was beautiful, the sound was incredible PHIL: I’ve got the hairs on the back of my neck up just remembering it. I was lucky enough to see it twice – PHIL: How does it feel when you perform those old songs? I mean they’re all utterly brilliant and these young people are going to discover that eventually. When I look out over the crowds that we play to at festivals the majority of the age is under 25 and they’ve just discovered us - They’re a lovely experience, you feel alive from head to toe and I always thought “Oh, I’ll put that down later” Never! Never! You act on it in that moment, it’s there for a reason. And I would’ve studied harder at school. I wasted 14 years of my life TAMMY: Wow. OK. It’s fascinating talking to do because I get an air of philosophy about you. I don’t necessarily mean religion but there is something about you that just, you know, is deep and it’s considered. I had to stop saying “C'mon guys, let’s go for lunch.” They were they, them, us, it. Words that I would’ve considered rude 40 years ago to address someone by. So I was continually having to learn to respect what they wanted and I was very happy to do that and at the same time I was going against 60 years of programming PHIL: So that was a challenge for you as well - TOYAH ON BBC RADIO 2 WITH JASON MOHAMMAD 30.6.2019. Above: Toyah with Jason Mohammad at the BBC Radio 2 studios in Salford 30.6.2019. ALEX: Or is it just your mind putting onto them what your thinking about them? Are they doing anything? TOYAH: It’s your experience talking. I mean we’ve all got this mammoth library of experience in us and we’ve grown up with absolutely brilliant songwriters. The Beatles, The Stones, Led Zeppelin … PHIL: It’s kind of whizzed on so quickly - Because you do feel moments where everyone in the room is one and it’s like a phenomenal meditation. You can just feel their energy tuning in and I am so grateful for that! It’s very very powerful - PHIL: Yeah. I know you’re a big horror fan as well - I have felt no need to take part in #MeToo because to be quite honest I just used my fists and there’s a few men out there who would happily use #MeToo on me (Alex laughs). I mean I just smashed them in the face. I had no qualms about that at all. And there are other singers who are renown for doing that too. TOYAH: Well, there’s a big difference between two hours and 20 minutes so today is a bit of a holiday (laughs) TOYAH: It’s very crimson. It’s “In The Court Of The Crimson Queen”. We started writing it ten years ago and we slowly drip-fed it to the fas as we toured constantly. So what happened – the only way I can explain is because if people know nothing about me … I was 60 on May the 18th last year and the fans downloaded me to number one in the charts and it was really quite extraordinary because I’m an unsigned artist. TOYAH: That’s storytelling writing, isn’t it? And the 80’s was very similar that we told stories about the listener to draw the listener in and when you listen to, say, “Yellow Brick Road” about going back to the farm, going back to your roots … ALEX: It was great! Of all the people you’ve worked with – give me a couple that were a thrill for you? If I could go back into the heavens when I was being conceived and I could choose the body – believe me I would’ve chosen a supermodel body because I think they have an easier life. I got this body and I just decided that I had to be very tomboyish – which I am – but I knew that was my way of surviving. I found that so powerful because I didn’t … I only got a change to hear the lyrics sitting in a cinema watching the film and I was like oh my goodness ! Because we do in a sense return to our roots so many times - TOYAH: I think punk rock. Simple as that. I knew – because I’m not physically exceptional – I’m barely five foot tall and I wanted to be in an industry where you had people like Cher, ABBA, Farrah Fawcett-Majors, you know these beautiful tall elegant women. Feminine graceful women … Well, I am none of that! I was very independent image wise from the age of 14. TOYAH: Well, they’re romantic. People sing along to those because there is a romantic connotation in them but there’s definitely rebellion in “I Want To Be Free” and another one that always takes me surprise and I have a similar effect with the song “Sensational” - is the song “Good Morning Universe” - PHIL: The Yin and Yang - TOYAH: Well, absolutely. I think part of that is we have the length of life we have for a reason. I just do not feel this is it, I never have. I live in an incredibly haunted house - As for the casting couch – one very remarkable one was - actually I feel quite proud of - because this director was legendary and it was Russ Meyer of "Valley Of The Vixens” and I was actually sent to an audition for one of his films in the late '70’s. No idea what I was in for! I arrived at the audition and I was asked to take my top off and I just put two and two together and I said “this ain’t for me” and I walked. TOYAH: How long ago was it? ALEX: Well, I can’t think many things cooler than hanging out with Katherine Hepburn being told one on one Spencer Tracy stories. And then Diana Dors! I’ve got to briefly ask - what did you work with Diana Dors on? TOYAH: Yeah. I’m so sorry. It’s the hardest grief. But you learn to live with void. That’s the only way I can describe it. You’re never quite the same again but something quite amazing happens with your life at that point and you move forward with strength - I think there’s even photographs out there where I’m being groped. At the time there was no #MeToo, there was no voice for how you felt. What #MeToo has done is given vulnerable women a voice and to point out when these situations have happened. TOYAH: Oh, they went absolutely bonkers ! We’re just getting so many standing ovations, it was really gorgeous. TAMMY: Aww! That’s really lovely. 61 one is in old money - that’s fifty now – it’s different … When I used to remember my mum being in her forties and now I’m there … it’s kind of different. I think I’m walking my own path because I do not believe and have never believed that you retire from who and what you love and who and what you are. RICHARD: So what’s been happening recently for you? You’ve had the new album out. I think your husband (Robert Fripp, below with Toyah) had a birthday recently as well – had a bit of a party, did you? Was that ever the case with management too and the record companies and the producers around you – did you experience that? Because that’s what we’re hearing about too that even when you’d left the club you’d still have to face it? TOYAH: Oh, really? Thank you. We went there and we had beautiful food. We didn’t have good weather, it rained every day. We’re next to the Mediterranean and it was gorgeous … RICHARD: It’s good that that happens but what about “It’s A Mystery” and things like that? And “Brave New World” … I was thinking - PHIL: It’s something that I’ve experienced more so recently that I’ve not been able to sleep. Is it the creative brain because you just want to keep producing? PHIL: Something for the fans. JASON: Absolutely ! That’s exactly it, as a parent, as a dad … listening to the lyrics there, you talking about holding the soul in your hands as well. The challenging world, we’ve been talking about this all morning, go out there and be loud, be heard and be proud - TOYAH: Yeah. Definitely. MARK: It’s odd isn’t it, it’s really weird -

 

 

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